Board Thread:Pokémon Help/@comment-31398341-20170703145512/@comment-30155146-20170705191533

Torrent Greninja:OVERRATED.

Anime favorite, for people who don't have connections.

The only way to reliably activate torrent is to use a sash, and that can easily be worn down by hazards and weather.

Once torrent is activated, all you get is a water attack boost, which is just worse than the ability to have a spd and spatk boost that maintains post form or STAB on every move.

I would daresay Shaymin-S: OVERRATED.

It doesn't get the coverage move, Earth Power, or the more powerful Grass STAB, Seed Flare in PBB.

Therefore, the ONLY option is to attempt to flinchax, which can easily be broken by a Inner Focus Dragonite or Lucario which can set up on it) or, since shaymin's bulk is not that of Mega Salemence's, Ice Shard. If the opponents luck isn't that of James Bond, mons like Heatran and Rotom-H wall it as well.