Board Thread:Pokémon Help/@comment-31796688-20171221140435/@comment-27535813-20180106163736

MaelFredbear wrote: well, noone uses a competitive hitmonlee, dedenne or mightyena, so how would u compare that? Of course, if no one uses something then that's when the theory comes in. You can adapt and improvise by also checking their standard sets on Smogon.

To begin with: Umbreon's set is nothing new, so it's not creative, and neither is it underrated. I don't get why it's ranked in here.

Dedenne's set is downright bad, without any investment in sp.atk, even at +6 boosts you're not going to hit anything. Also, Sub > Nuzzle since it's basically allowing you to set-up and absorb certain attacks better, safely Recycle and also trigger Sitrus Berry. However, Substitute is known to be used in the standard sets, but I do question the viability of using the set you posted since if Sub was to replace Nuzzle, it wouldn't be too different from the standard set. Also do note that since Cheek Pouch already heals it, I don't think Sitrus is necessary. Then again, this would only make it seem like the standard set. All in all, it's probably a bad set and mostly a gimmick since in the end the standard set basically outclasses it in every way possible.

Hitmonlee's set is interesting but I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned in Smogon's Analysis before, so I'm not quite sure if it's truly useful but has its merits. Personally, I find that it requires a lot of effort to be able to pull it off since it demands the right situation to be set in place, which means its not a flexible set. However, I would at least say that this is still an interesting set as I mentioned before, and at least can be seen as a creative set.

Shuckle's set is a big fat gimmick and I'm pretty sure it has been talked about in any competitive scene when people knew about Power Trick. Sure, 230 base attack after sounds nifty, but you will be left with 10 base defense. Therefore, even after max investment, good luck tanking a physical move after that! EV spread is also questionable. Also, don't bother running evasion moves, it's just plain annoying.

Mightyena's set is very silly. One quick look at the moveset and you see a special move, and a low base power of 50 for Poison Fang. Unless you can somehow invest in such a way that you can even make use of it's base 60 sp.atk... Quick Feet is useless in the sense that you're asking yourself to take a status and hopefully use it well, even after getting burned and basically having a useless attack stat, t-wave basically negates the ability and I don't think it's going to stay in long and accumulate toxic damage especially with its terrible bulk. Also, Sawsbuck Coffee... really?

I think some people are posting sets here that are not "creative" or "underrated", please take your time to at least read the main post:

"3. What are some things that constitute a bad gimmick?

- Using a Pokemon that has no business being used in the given metagame.

- Movesets that are inferior and ineffective compared to existing movesets

- Movesets that are utterly impractical or are horribly outclassed by another Pokemon (Foongus with any moveset should not be used in any battles."

TL;DR: Umbreon's mentioned set is basically the standard one, Hitmonlee's set should be discussed upon and can be seen as creative, don't bother with Power Trick and evasion moves on Shuckle and lastly, Mightyena's set is simply seen as outclassed by its standard set.

Also for the Pokémon that I didn't talk about, Clefable, Lapras and Marshadow's set seems ok. Alolan-Raichu has been dealt with.